Small claims court US, info and help please.

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Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jan 2011 Posts: 1650

Hello.

This is a bit of a odd 'ask for help' plea as ive never been involved in anything like this before. Please read on and feel free to offer help and advice.

I have been a member on another online site which is game based. The game is initially free to join and sports based however if you want to upgrade equipment to get better you have to buy better equipment to get better and move through the tiers of the game. Its not cheap to do so however you can wager against other players on the site and make a fixed bet so if you win the game you win the bet, however if you lose you also lose the wager you betted against.

Ok, this is the point where things went wrong.

I amassed 'tokens' worth around $350 in my account, I cannot take these tokens but I can use them to upgrade my equipment when I feel the need to do so.

Now, during the game I played a few guys and noticed something odd happening. I contacted the game 'owners' through their members website as I found a cheat going on. The owners were very sceptical and would not do anything about it to start with. Well as im a member of '419' I was like a dog with a bone and this proved my downfall.

I researched what I thought was this cheat and proved I was correct, however I was banned from the game and my account closed. The 'owners' emailed me saying I was the cheater, using this cheat. This cheat is a 'tool' if you like and can make it but you would have to have knowledge of online gaming and how a router works. This can be found on youtube and Xbox has banned players of online gaming and its very effective way of cheating.

I have done nothing wrong, lets make that clear.

I have emailed this gaming site but they have condemned me and cannot provide any evidence even though I keep emailing them every day asking for evidence. I have also suggested to them that my banning is their way of silencing me as a few members cheating on a gaming site makes revenue for the owners.

For example

if you make a wager in this game the site take a cut of 10% so lets say the wager is 500 credits against 1 player you would win 1000 however the site would take a cut of 10%.

Also by cheating and not getting caught genuine players are investing their money buying more tokens and obviously generating revenue for the site.

So Ive lost around $350 but frustrated that ive been banned to effectively 'shut me up' as the gaming site cannot provide any evidence that ive done wrong.

What I want to do is take this site to a small claims court. As I live in the UK they possibly think that I will not make any issues from the ban as the gaming site is in the US. If this was in the UK I could take out a small claims for around $100 and would never need to go to court physically.

I am hoping that there is a small claims court in the US. All I want to do is issue them with a small claims basically to show I have done nothing wrong and not the one who has cheated. Of course they cannot prove it because I am the one who was the 'whistle-blower' but for some reason they want me quiet.

At the end of the day I should have just minded my own business and let the cheats cheat and just avoided them like the plague, but I got too involved and cracked the cheat.

So theres the story.

So I want help or advice on how to proceed with a small claims in America, I cannot travel to the States, also would not make financial sense so I want to proceed online. At the end of the day I want to prove I was right and was not the cheater after all and they reopen my account.

Thanks

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:58 am

Hm, can't say I understand the situation but it's a real issue to try and pursue it - small claims are usually adminstered at the county level rather than nationally or even by state (although they tend to follow common procedures within a state).

So you'd need to search for the local jurisdiction based on where the company is located (search city or state name and "small claims") to find out what the procedures are. for example, see this document that gives guidance for North Carolina: LINKY

Many counties have no facility for online filing, and sorry to say I would not have much hope for a successful small claim in such cases, I suspect the site owners could hide behind their terms of service. At the very least you should look very closely at their terms of service before proceeding further.

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:36 pm

We have small claims courts here but my impression is that you would have to show up in order to have a chance at winning your case. Collecting the money is another story but it sounds like you are more interested in getting their name on record as being dirty. You might try lodging a complaint with the local Better Business Bureau where they are located. Maybe if enough complaints are submitted they can get shut down. Maybe a report to the local newspaper would be helpful too.

That's about all I can think of.

Master Baiter Joined: 21 Feb 2013 Posts: 123

.. also if you are talking of lag switches I think that although their use is obvious they are practically impossible to 'prove'.

Baiting Guru Joined: 03 Mar 2006 Posts: 7101 Location: Yes

You face a number of issues; some legal and some practical.

Let's start with the basics. If you are representing yourself, you can act pro se, meaning you don't need a lawyer, but if you were suing on behalf of an entity, you'd need a lawyer. You have to sue the company where a court has jurisdiction over the game site. So, let's assume it's a Delaware limited liability company headquartered in Kansas. You could arguably sue it in Delaware, but since the company has its assets and operations in Kansas, you'd want to sue them in Kansas.

Then you have to find the municipality/city where they are in Kansas. There is no state-wide small claims court in the U.S. So, let's say you find they're in Topeka (a big city -- for Kansas). You go onto the website for the small claims court which is probably only 50% helpful as there are the written rules and the unwritten rules. But anyway, you download a summons form, fill it out and then .... what? Oh, it's probably at least $100 to file the case. Then you have to effect service on the defendant, which usually requires (but not always) a process server. That's going to run $50 to $100, assuming the company is easy to find. If not, then who knows?

Now, let's assume you file the case successfully and then serve the defendant. You'll likely have a court date scheduled sometime in the near future. The defendant can do some maneuverings if it wants or can just answer the complaint and press forward.

Here's the legal part: Unless the defendant defaults (i.e., doesn't show up) you need to present basic evidence in support of your case. "He did it, Your Honor. Here's my proof." Guess who needs to be there to tell the judge those things? Right, you. And, if you think a small claims judge is going to begin to understand your stated claim of an online cheat, I'd love to sell you some Bitcoins.

Okay, let's assume best case scenario. You file the complaint, get a court date, somehow fudge not being present in Kansas, and the court grants you a default judgment in the amount of $350 plus your court fee (not always the case, but possible). You are now the owner of a judgment in the amount of, let's make it even, $500. Congratulations. That and $4.50 will get you a Venti coffee at Starbucks.

You now need to force the defendant to cough up the money. At that level of monetary pain, the defendant, assuming it is even aware of the case, is laughing at you. You can try to attach a bank account or maybe show up with a sheriff and post a notice on their desk chairs and computers and sell them at a sheriff's auction in 3 months. All of that costs you money by the way. And maybe the defendant just shuts down and opens up under a new name and location. Well, good luck getting your judgment transferred to the new entity.

Anyway, I could go on (and I can for $450/hr), but the real point to make is that if you aren't able to be present in the U.S. to present your case, you essentially have no shot.

You might have a better shot going through your bank or credit card (however you initially deposited funds to gain credits) to challenge their stealing your money. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news...

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 3:55 pm

Launch a social media campaign. You know you want to :p
They want you to be silent? Don't be. You weren't in the wrong.

Believe me, they fear bad publicity more than small claims courts. And social media has a habit of spreading bad publicity very far, very quickly...

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:31 pm

JMR is on the money. Assuming you can find the locale where a small claims court would have jurisdiction over the company, most small claims do not allow representation by attorneys. The injured party (you) must do their own work and that means filing a complaint and getting appropriate service. And showing up at a pretrial to tell the judge what the case is about.

Elite Baiter Joined: 16 Jan 2011 Posts: 1650

Thanks for all the above. i knew this was a hopeless case and the game site knows this. We are not talking a small sports gaming site here we are talking something quite big.

but the site generates money from members, without members there would be no site. As above you buy tokens, if you like so if we convert tokens to moneys its around 100 tokens is a dollar, however 100 tokens will buy you next to nothing you need around 2000 or even up to 4000 to buy equipment that means something. the better the equipment the more they cost.

Now as I say members pay the site but if there are a few cheaters who are using tools such as Dire Straits reply suggests cheats are stealing from genuine members who do not know they have been ripped off (it took me research until I discovered it) and buy more tokens when they run out. So you can see money is being generated.

I suppose if lots of members complain about 1 cheater the site has to investigate and possibly close the cheaters account. The cheater may have 50,000 tokens so the site seizes those and bingo the circle goes around again, all the cheater has to do is create another account, or change VPN and start over again ripping people off until he is once again discovered.

If you have a person like myself who just cannot let go of the bone and investigates further keeping an eye on the cheater who may well be moving tokens around to other accounts starts to create waves its an easy process for the site owners to 'shut me up' by banning me. Sure I can open another account change my IP or just use some VPN software and start over again myself and ignore the damn lot of them, however on this occasion its cost me over $300, again my tokens worth $300 has gone back into the game sites pocket.

I just fell pissed off about this

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:40 pm

I don't blame you for feeling frustrated. Gaming sites can be a huge pain. I have several members of my family who subscribe to various sites and buy in-game items, and we've run into problems more than once.

I agree with JMR--you'll have much better luck disputing the charge on your credit card. My credit card companies have saved us money more than once from unethical or downright dishonest websites.

Posted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 8:19 pm

Playtime, a Section 75 claim to your credit card company might be a possibility - if you made a payment of over £100 in one go.

Check out the Money Saving Expert forum - there are people on there who will know the position and also your rights.

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:28 am

I'm with JM and Capone on this. Small claims is more of a pain than an answer. It sucks, but it's reality. It will cost our client more $$ to prosecute than it stands to recover.

It's a good outlet, but cost ineffective.

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:25 am

If you downloaded the tool and used it in game, even if just for research, I'd have to say that your chances of getting any satisfaction are very, very low.

Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:22 am

playtime wrote:

We are not talking a small sports gaming site here we are talking something quite big.

but the site generates money from members, without members there would be no site.

...cheats are stealing from genuine members who do not know they have been ripped off

Like I said, generate a social media storm over this. If players are unaware that cheating is going on, make them aware. Name and shame.
Get enough players angry enough over the cheats and the company will be forced to take action to stop the cheats.

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:20 am

JMR wrote:

I could go on (and I can for $450/hr)

Um, looking for a good legal assistant?! Wink

I agree with Basinga, pitch a fit via social media, you'll get more attention that way.

Or just drop it, walk away, and chalk it up to experience.

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:10 am

Does the Website have a Facebook Page? That would be a good place to start with your Cheat Campaign. If not, make one.

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:49 pm

The social media shaming thing could work, and by the looks of it may be your only option.

Reddit, FB, twitter etc can publicize this, but as SOOI said, if youve downloaded the tool and used it, getting your money back is probably not gonna happen as you will have broken their TOS which you would have agreed to on signing up

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