ANZAC

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Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:52 am

Hi to all baiters that ANZAC day is important to. For all those who don't know, ANZAC means Australian New Zealand Army Corp and is of meaning to those that have family that have served in the 1st world war in Gallipoli and Anzac Cove but also is a testament to the soldiers that served in the 2nd world war too. Other servicemen from recent wars are honoured too.
Hubby will walk tomorrow with his fathers and grandfathers medals that were earned in the Pacific and the Boer War.
Anyway, just want to say to all those that have a holiday on this day, lets just remember all those that aren't with us and we will remember them with pride.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:12 pm

Happy ANZAC day Bella.
(I think both my daughter and I were born a day too early!! It's my birthday the day after Waitangi and hers the day after ANZAC day Rolling Eyes

)

419Eater is my life Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 476

Lest we forget, brothers (and sisters)

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:30 pm

Just a few lines before I head off to attend the March...

As Bella said, it's a commemoration of all soldiers who served in all the wars that Australia took part in. It's also marking a day that, I think, marked a major change in the Australian psyche; the start of the process whereby we stopped being British colonials and began to develop a distinct identity of our own.

It's also a significant day for Turkey - from the Gallipoli campaign an officer named Mustafa Kemal gained fame and recognition for his courage and foresight, and from this he rose to be a nation-builder and statesman and earn the name "Ataturk" - Father of the Turks.

Quote:

What these men did, nothing can alter now.
The good and the bad, the greatness and the smallness of their story will stand.
Whatever of glory it contains nothing can now lessen.
It rises, as it will always rise, above the mists of ages, a monument to great-hearted men; And for their nation, a possession forever.

Charles Bean

Quote:

Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives;
You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
Therefore rest in peace.
There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side, here in this country of ours.
You, the mothers, who sent their sons from far away countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace.
After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

Mustapha Kemal Ataturk

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 9:53 pm

First time in a few years I have missed the dawn service, myself & the family have been down with a nasty cold, but watching it on telly.

yastreb - there was another country that committed a disproportionate number of soldiers as well Confused

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 2300

Happy ANZAC day. Remember the sacrifice that many veterans made for all of us.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:04 am

Just got back from the Dawn service and the traditional breaky and 'couple' of drinks.
It was amazing to see how many turned out on the Coast for 1 of many services.
I used to attend in NZ but this is the first one in Australia.
Very moving.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:05 am

My 13yr old son played the Last Post at our small local ceremony. Not a dry eye in the house. His great-grandfathers served throughout WW1 in the trenches and by some miracle all survived unscathed. It's a sobering thought to realise that if any of they hadn't then I wouldn't be here and neither would my son.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:20 am

Shame the Wellington service was marred by a few activists. What right do they have?
Apart from that, a beautiful service.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:22 am

Gnasher wrote:

It's a sobering thought to realise that if any of they hadn't then I wouldn't be here and neither would my son.

A sobering thought, indeed!
To everyone who has served their country, willing to lay down their life for what they believed in, I salute you!

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:42 am

Kia Ora,

Lets Honour them all together.

Kia Kaha.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:24 am

Kickstart wrote:

First time in a few years I have missed the dawn service, myself & the family have been down with a nasty cold, but watching it on telly.

yastreb - there was another country that committed a disproportionate number of soldiers as well Confused

I recall a paragraph in a guidebook that I bought at Gallipoli that noted the 15,000 New Zealand soldiers killed in the Great War (2,431 of them at Gallipoli) and compared that to the 7,000 or so Belgian soldiers (to be fair, Belgium was pretty much knocked out of the war at the start).

I've wondered too if the New Zealand view of their identity was altered in the same way as Australia's. I'd welcome some enlightenment.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:20 am

I really feel for the victims of both sides, the Turkish farmers died as well - with a nearly 2:1 death ratio. One thing I will never forget is that history IS written by the winners.

I remember as a child reading about Christmas eve in the trenches vs the Germans, they had a party in the middle, shared cigarettes, whatever booze they had, tried to make jokes, then hopped back in the trenches and massacred each other then next day. Stories like that are everywhere in history and utterly disgust me.

I have talked to a few vets, and the stories they tell are unbelieveable. The worst are the ones who wont talk.

My wife's grandfather never mentioned the war, he served in africa. A year before he died, I had a few whiskeys with him - he talked and my hair nearly went white.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:41 am

Yes, I totally agree that the stories of the brave men and women that served their countries are awful. I heard the story that on Christmas Day the two sides played football in the middle of the gap between them, but I feel it means something totally different.
I think that the people sent to the front had the compassion to feel that this was a day they were taught to love their fellow man. It wasn't their fault they were at war, they were caught up in a political upheaval that was beyond their comprehension. After, they were ordered to go back to their posts and even though they may not have agreed, they had signed up to serve their country and that was foremost in their minds.
I hope that I haven't trodden on anyones toes but this is something that I feel very strongly about.
These people gave their all, and deserve to be remembered as heroes and I appreciate the fact that they did lay down their lives for us.
I just wish that we could all learn from what they endured, and make this world a better place.
OK, rant over!
Hope I didn't upset anyone. Confused

Baiting Guru Joined: 07 Jan 2007 Posts: 2788

No-one wins in a war...

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 763

Actually, they do.

Oh, there once was a swagman camped in the billabong,
Under the shade of a coolibah tree,
And he sang as he looked at the old billy boiling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda my darling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
Waltzing Matilda and leading a waterbag,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Down came the jumbuck to drink at the water-hole,
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee,
And he sang as he put him away in his tucker-bag,
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me.

Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda my darling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
Waltzing Matilda and leading a waterbag,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Up came the Squatter a-ridding his thoroughbred,
Up came Policemen - one, two and three,
Whose is that jumbuck you've got in the tucker-bag,
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me.

Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda my darling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
Waltzing Matilda and leading a waterbag,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

The swagman he up and he jumped in the water-hole,
Drowning himself by the coolibah tree,
And his ghost may be heard as it sings by the billabong,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda my darling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
Waltzing Matilda and leading a waterbag,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Original A.B. "Banjo" Paterson lyrics. Was altered to suit her purposes by Marie Cowen in 1906--much as "Casey at the Bat" was altered for public performances and has become the version best known.

Explanation for us non-Aussie HERE.

THIS also has the explanation with the "newer" version sang.

For Gallipoli:

When I was a young man I carried my pack
And I lived the free life of a rover
From the Murrays green basin to the dusty outback
I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in nineteen fifteen my country said Son
It's time to stop rambling 'cause there's work to be done
So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun
And they sent me away to the war
And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we sailed away from the quay
And amidst all the tears and the shouts and the cheers
We sailed off to Gallipoli

How well I remember that terrible day
How the blood stained the sand and the water
And how in that hell that they called Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
Johnny Turk he was ready, he primed himself well
He chased us with bullets, he rained us with shells
And in five minutes flat he'd blown us all to hell
Nearly blew us right back to Australia
But the band played Waltzing Matilda
As we stopped to bury our slain
We buried ours and the Turks buried theirs
Then we started all over again

Now those that were left, well we tried to survive
In a mad world of blood, death and fire
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
But around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over tit
And when I woke up in my hospital bed
And saw what it had done, I wished I was dead
Never knew there were worse things than dying
For no more I'll go waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and near
For to hump tent and pegs, a man needs two legs
No more waltzing Matilda for me

So they collected the cripples, the wounded, the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The armless, the legless, the blind, the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where my legs used to be
And thank Christ there was nobody waiting for me
To grieve and to mourn and to pity
And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered, they just stood and stared
Then turned all their faces away

And now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
And I watch my old comrades, how proudly they march
Reliving old dreams of past glory
And the old men march slowly, all bent, stiff and sore
The forgotten heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask, "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question
And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men answer to the call
But year after year their numbers get fewer
Some day no one will march there at all

Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda
Who'll come a waltzing Matilda with me
And their ghosts may be heard as you pass the Billabong
Who'll come-a-waltzing Matilda with me?

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:29 am

^ So true. Sad

But the brave that lie in the war graves here and overseas are the true heroes and deserve our up most respect, as well as those that marched today.
I hope with all my heart that the tradition of the ANZAC with live with us forever.
Lest we forget!! New Zealand

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:34 am

And let's not forget the millions of French, British, German, Belgian, Russian, Polish, Italian. American, Japanese etc etc military AND civilians who also perished in these terrible and pointless wars. RIP

** ACCOUNT CLOSED ** Joined: 15 Apr 2007 Posts: 763

^^^^
No one has.

They were "pointless" only to the extent that men made them necessary.

When someone comes to your country and starts slaughtering your people for whatever reason, ceasing such is quite a "point."

WWI is very different, of course, from WWII with regards to "need."

--J.D.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:29 pm

@Gnasher:

As a Canadian veteran (most recently Kandahar, Afghanistan 2006), I take exception to

Gnasher wrote:

No-one wins in a war...

Ask an Afghan whether he or she thinks the counterinsurgency there has benefited Afghanistan.

I dealt with Afghans on a daily basis. Not politicians, not military leaders, not warlords, but poor civilians trying to deal with the aftermath of Taliban rule.

What did I hear? Repeatedly? "Don't leave until it's done."

Amazing how many people in the West find this difficult to believe.

Baiting Guru Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 2300

As a gun-totin' American veteran, you all know where I lie on the side of the debate that's on the verge of hijacking this thread. But, I remind everyone that we don't want to get into a political debate on Eater. Please keep the thread on topic, so it doesn't get locked.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:36 pm

Jen Derbender wrote:

@Gnasher:

As a Canadian veteran (most recently Kandahar, Afghanistan 2006), I take exception to

Gnasher wrote:

No-one wins in a war...

Ask an Afghan whether he or she thinks the counterinsurgency there has benefited Afghanistan.

I dealt with Afghans on a daily basis. Not politicians, not military leaders, not warlords, but poor civilians trying to deal with the aftermath of Taliban rule.

What did I hear? Repeatedly? "Don't leave until it's done."

Amazing how many people in the West find this difficult to believe.

Ahem - not my quote mate. Embarassed

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:43 pm

For you Aussies and New Zelanders out there, please hug one of your vets for me. I thank em over here in the states when I can. Just want to spread that around some.

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 12:03 am

Wars are fought by young men because of the failings of old men.

The young men deserve respect for the sacrifices that they have made and are making. The old men who caused or failed to prevent the war from occurring deserve our condemnation. However our leaders are just as human as the rest of us so maybe wars are just terrible mistakes.

My grandfather enlisted early in 1916 because he wanted to go home to England to see his parents. He spent 2 years fighting in France. He wanted to be demobilised in England so he could be with his family but the Australian army refused and shipped him back to Australia. He never fully recovered from his war injuries and died before his time.

Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:18 am

@Gnasher:

Sorry mate. Embarassed